The fact that we finished our sowing campaign in spring means it is rather alive. Over the past 4 years, the company has weathered the storm of many conflicts. Now we hope to have a constructive conversation with the National Bank of Ukraine (NBU). We actively conduct negotiations with the Deposit Insurance Fund (DIF) and external creditors. We have our own vision of UkrLandFarming development. We hope that in 1.5-2 months we will reach consensus with the NBU and DIF which will be beneficial for all parties. We want UkrLandFarming to function, people to have jobs, investments to flow in instead of appeasing security agencies and people who orchestrate the conflict…

No, we haven't had a meeting with Mr. Smoliy yet.

It is neither better nor overtly worse. We hope it will be constructive.

They have not. We offer a 10-year restructuring without a discount. We realize that the DIF can sell our deposit for 5-7% of its worth tops. If our restructuring plan gets approved, the state will get the money during the first or the second year. At the same time, it will be done in a civilized manner, the company will retain its opportunities for growth and development, and it will activate the process of tax paying, the creation of job opportunities and improvement of the state's GDP.

We plan to cover 100% of the debt to the DIF and NBU, despite the fact that our loan portfolio is much less. That is, I, as the bank owner, offer to repay a large loan portfolio. This offer is more than reasonable from the standpoint of the owner's responsibility and his publicity. We have no idea why this is not obvious to the NBU and DIF but we hope that reason and not the other parties' interests will get the upper hand.

The overall amount is UAH 19 billion. This is a sum of the debt to both the NBU and the DIF.

Yes, you are. It is a very selective way of collecting debts: chasing one and letting others go. The previous management of the NBU should be asked this: why do they pick out one or two victims and make all the others saints? I don't mean to be a judge but in this case, the selective approach is obvious. Why do they allow some 15 years for restructuring while bringing to court those who ask for 10 years? My case was changed a number of times and none was held responsible for it. It is easier to pick up a victim who they can make look guilty. Were there any other reasons? Yes, definitely.

There is no other asset like UkrLandFarming in Ukraine. The company has acquired around USD 2 billion of assets which are still there. That is a fact. People who have no real business experience can try to hip blame on Bakhmatyuk, his strategy, planning but it is clear that it is the company they want. It may be easily sold for 10-15% of its price, the guilty party has been named and can be held responsible to the creditors. I think that was the trigger. Perhaps they thought the company wouldn't last a year. The first couple of years were tough, they felt like being shot in both legs, given a kettlebell in each hand and told to run with the same speed.

But the company pulled through… We didn't get any loans, paid the creditors USD 500 million and managed to keep almost all the assets (although we did have to cut down the land bank) without decreasing the volume of production. We had to close down our distribution because we did not have enough operating cash; all means for development were blocked, we did not invest in anything, neither ports nor anything else. We could not expand but we tried to maintain what we had.

Our biggest losses are time and opportunities. However, considering the latest negotiations, it seems the Cabinet tends to think pragmatically whether the PM likes Bakhmatyuk or not. There is something to be done about the company which pays more than UAH 2 billion of taxes, more than UAH 2 billion of rent, and produces and exports commodities worth USD 800-900 million. We are real producers, not some speculators. The enterprises like ours build the foundation of the state that is why there are two possible ways to go: that of ruin and destruction or that of rebuilding and maintenance. We are not saying we never took out loans but there are different ways of paying them back. One way is to chop off hands and legs and say: "Why does such a body need to live?" That's what the previous banking system did. Time is the best judge. In this case, we act legally: if the owner took more responsibility than he had loans, he ought to be supported to save the company. We see that the Cabinet and the DIF do support us. There is understanding. It doesn't come out of great love for Bakhmatyuk. The reason is that the state wants to get its money back. I hope the NBU will think along the same lines.

Yes, we cannot conduct any negotiations with the foreign creditors without its decision. There should be a transparent plan of restructuring. We may invite an international adviser, auditors of the Big Four, initiate legislative changes if needed (not for the sake of Bakhmatyuk but for the sake of other bank owners who want to negotiate loan restructuring), provide the DIF with the necessary legislative tools etc. We need to do something about the situation, given that all the parties are willing to reach the consensus.

I won't comment on this because I cannot prove it. It is an improper question, to say the least. On the contrary, the President has always supported me; during the meetings on the NBU, he wished to save the bank. I will solve my problems without involving the President. As far as the reasons for all the misfortunes go, I think they have rather more to do with the President's inner circle than with the President himself.

Any struggle is defined by two things: your mindset and your team. Like any person, I am liable to mood swings, physical and ethical reactions to the problem but my team faced it all with dignity. We had much to do: optimize some processes, find many inner resources, and reassess the strategy. They say "tuning" is most perceived when you reach perfection. We still have room for perfection. UkrLandFarming is a platform which requires a port, protein clusters. We've "tuned" it well. Was the "tuning" needed? Definitely not. The company would have benefited from development, but we had to "tune" it given the circumstances. Owing to this situation, we've become strong tactic players, but we've lost strategy, for now.

There is no difference whether the business is large or small. If the person has taken any amount of responsibility (even for 500-1000 ha), he becomes committed. He may turn out to be even more committed than us because he is his own manager, agronomist, and financier. The raiding has drawn the attention of the Ministry of Justice, so I think they will put an end to it.

We suggested one solution and a clear model of its implementation. Obviously, it will not be fully accepted for various reasons… There should be an "arbiter", a middleman with the required qualifications. It is a world practice to hire consultants and auditor companies to discuss debt owed to the state. This is how we work with the creditors. We hire experienced counselors.

The name doesn't matter. There should be a tender, these are not cheap companies and they will request much money for looking into this case, but we are ready to pay.

About USD 1 million. This covers the services of lawyers, auditors, counselors. We don't mind the price as long as it helps to clarify the real state of arts with the debts and the mechanisms of paying them.

We only plan to finance supporting capital expenditures. We plan to allot money for supporting the enterprises. These are not investments in the usual sense, like investing in building a port would be. We are currently in no position to speak of investments.

We decreased our distribution by 80% for the lack of operating funds. We cannot give our products on credit. The distribution in Ukraine falls into 4 categories: mineral fertilizers, crop protection products, machinery, and seeds. Most of the companies lease assets for 6-10 month.

Since UkrLandFarming experiences constant zeitnot, our credit rating decreases. We cannot credit the distribution relying on our own means, but we will be back. It is not too hard to reestablish the distribution chain…

Our main avenues for development will be crop production, livestock, and elevators. Besides, we set hopes on Avangard. We will also continue with seed production. We have simplified all the processes. The rate of turnover is our current priority.

Grain production will greatly depend on the amounts of exports which in their turn depend on the dollar rate. This marketing year, the company has decided to increase sales in Ukraine because it is more efficient — no need to wait for VAT refunds. Our current strategy is to tailor our plans to the market prices.

As far as Avangard goes, we plan to increase its exports. Compared to the past year it has much increased — it takes 35% in the export volumes of the company… In the next 5 years, 70 % of the Avangard products will be exported and 30% will be delivered to the domestic market. This is how we plan to restore the manufacturing capacity of the company. Will we succeed? This is part of the plan. Today our exports amount to 35% which we plan to increase to 45% by the end of the year. We would like to establish cooperation in the transaction systems of the Middle Eastern, North, and Central African markets. We want to distribute powdered eggs to the markets of China, Indonesia, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, and Hong-Kong. We have already made our first deliveries of several containers of powdered eggs to Hong-Kong. I think this will be an important market for us in the next 2-3 years. Export orientation should protect Avangard from internal risks and guarantee the company's safety.

UkrLandFarming is more of a processing enterprise. We realize that 78% of the cost price of an egg is the price of the feed. For chicken meat, this number is 75%. Therefore, it is important to increase our technical capacity and enter foreign markets by building the port platform of the company to develop the grain business of UkrLandFarming. In other words, the strategy for UkrLandFarming is pretty simple: develop it as if it were an oil company but produce grain instead of oil. It needs an access to the sea, the rest will follow…

Today the number of workers has decreased from 37 thousand people to about 31 thousand employees. It is caused by several factors: cutting down the distributions, decrease of the land bank, the war, decrease of the operating funds, etc.

Naturally, the company is less interesting than it was in 2014, conflicts put investors off. Money loves quiet. When a company has problems, the only people who are interested in it are "jackals" or those who make money on company's assets by selling it bit by bit. True investors prefer transparent viable assets. And it is not about the owner, it is about straightforward political and legal constructions. But investors are still interested. On a scale from one to ten, five years ago the interest score was 8-9, now it is 4-5. But there are interested investors and their number will increase. Any potential investor needs to see that there is a clear plan of action and we need to declare it publically and get the guarantees. Such a large company as UkrLandFarming should have powerful investors.

I don't know if it is just the NBU, a lot depends on all the parties.

We do not plan on buying land because attracting investors is still an open question. Regarding the reform, first of all, there should be a reform. People were unfairly deprived of property rights to land. The task of the government is to let people get a high price for their land if they chose to sell it. Second of all, it will activate the banking system because there will be land collaterals that will stimulate the financial market. Third, any form of transition to the free market will have a positive effect. What I would not want it to be is a set of "half-measures". No matter whether we are to buy 50, 100 or 1000 ha, we will still be lessees. I am sure it is easier to negotiate with larger than smaller lessees.

That is exactly why I support the land reform. It should have been implemented 10 years ago. It would have brought additional capital to the country and attracted investors. Will it be introduced this year? I don't think so. There will be no reform before the election. It will likely be addressed after the presidential and parliamentary elections. These assets got the attention of the foreign creditors and no decision is made today without involving them. Whether we like it or not, it looks like they will try to see it through.

Nobody in the world owes Ukraine anything nor should they. There is interest, curiosity, and certain geopolitical and economic plans. If Ukraine is not a subject of these processes, if it does not take part in discussions, it means we are totally governed from abroad. Today Ukraine surely is an object which the recent events convincingly prove. Our elite is divided not only when it comes to land matters. The same is true just about anything. Where there is no elite, there is always foreign influence. What does it entail? There is always a war going on: a trade war, an economic war, a political war. The test of a government is whether they manage to negotiate the best conditions for the country, not just wave a flag for or against someone. There are no good or bad leaders. There are those who can represent the interests of a country. That is what our partners in the West, East or Asia do for their countries. Singapore is a small state with the population of 5.5 million people, but it is often cited as an example. It is very influential in its region both economically and politically.

It is important to build a politically viable model, to have well-trained diplomats who can participate in political negotiations and influence economic processes. The flow of foreign capital into the country is very important: American, Chinese, European… I don't mean only obvious investment in land resources and alike, but investment in elevators, flour milling business, pork and poultry production and so on. This is called the ability to present your country in the market. This becomes possible only when there is elite. What is the point of asking about something when there is none to address the question to? In that case, they simply come and dictate their own rules which are not necessarily good for us. When there is no resistance, everybody does what he wills until his business here is over. If there is an establishment, however, it should bring important things into perspective. Both positive and negative ones. The negative one is the Russian aggression, the positive one is that Ukraine is the second largest grain exporter in the world which is an important leverage of influence in the Middle East and Northern Africa. If Ukraine and America unite, they can create a version of Grain OPEC, i.e. they can control more than 60% of the grain export. It is important to know our strength and balance our economic and political interests.

What you describe can only work if the elite is united. What we see today, however, is an ongoing war between the different parties. There are the so-called rat-catchers who throw in a bait and wait till others fight over it, putting down the strongest and giving way to the catcher himself. If we had a united elite, such scenarios would be impossible. Aren't there any under-the-table agreements in Germany, France, the UK or US? Of course, there are. However, they do not parade them, annoying and dividing people. If the Ukrainian elite does not unite (not only to decide on the land issue but also on a number of other fundamental things), things may get worse. They should consider the interests of the people; the land will be there unless there is a total foreign takeover.

The roots of evil are in our mentality and the young age of the state. 27 years is not much. We haven't had much time.

Indeed. Besides, we've never had a sovereign state before. We were always subjects to other countries. Mentality also plays a role, there is a division into western, eastern, central and southern Ukraine. This difference had been exploited by various political parties for the last 25 years. It was an easy and convenient way to divide the people and the elite. They say Ukrainians always unite before an execution. There's also another axiom: where there are two Cossacks, there are three Hetmans. It is still true today. Most of the people I am in touch with understand that these are difficult times and we need to unite for the sake of economic growth and the state. I cannot say whether there will be unity or not, though.

What I think the Ukrainian elite should do is design and give us a plan of development. Moaning, expressing indignation and crying havoc is all very impressive, but this is not how things get done. If there are no ideas, they should be brainstormed. Ukraine should be built by Ukrainians. There should be pragmatic Ukrainian economic nationalists.

We do like martyrs and the celebration of martyrdom. I suppose there are things to apologize for and that is normal. What I think the Ukrainian elite should do is design and give us a plan of development. Moaning, expressing indignation and crying havoc is all very impressive, but this is not how things get done. If there are no ideas, they should be brainstormed. The elite should come up with an idea, explain it to people, lead the way and invite everyone to follow. The people may believe in the plan and accept it or vice verse. It's 100% true that we all have things to apologize for. Ukraine should be built by Ukrainians. There should be pragmatic Ukrainian economic nationalists.

I have my personal vision of a situation, and I am ready to stand by the people who call themselves the elite and share some of the responsibility.

You slightly overestimate the power of the Ukrainian elite when you compare them with the powers of the large foreign corporations. The truth is that the combined powers of us all can hardly outweigh the business-power of at least one American corporation.

That's right. However, state interests should be balanced by two other things I believe. Firstly, Ukraine's agriculture is of interest to the investors which should be used. Secondly, it is necessary to estimate our industrial opportunities correctly and present them on the external market. There are players who are interested in working in our territories. These mainly include Asian countries (China, Japan, Korea, partly Indonesia), and companies of the Middle East and North Africa. That is, we attract investors. No elite can buy out the country. It is not like buying an estate in London. Ukraine needs considerable systemic investments. The elite can wish all they want but they do not have enough resources to increase the GDP by more than the ludicrous annual 3%, although at least 10-15% is perfectly doable. All we need is USD 50-100 billion of investments which can be attracted if the mentioned players are willing to invest and the elite is willing to be part of the process. It is the elite that should be the country's idea-generators, managers, and co-investors… The wealth of Ukraine is not much. It will suffice for a region but not for the whole country.

am rather a proponent of NEP and deregulation. If business were given a chance to develop, the country would flourish too. Full deregulation is a key to that. If Ukraine were to introduce attractive taxes for investing in various sectors (without turning into an offshore zone!), that would be an instrument used by all developed countries. We need a turnover tax and strict financial control over the collection of excise taxes on alcohol and tobacco. The same goes for permits: the state should help, not put barriers.

t definitely is going!

Over the past 4 years, we have significantly limited the power of the central authority. Now we are bringing it to the level of management instead of decision making and control. This year we plan to finalize this process. This is deregulation. Why are we doing this? There are many things which are slowed down by the model of top decision-making. Modern technology allows building a different model. We've learned it by doing in 24 years; we've been trying to put it into practice over the last 3 years. Owing to this, we've cut down the time of decision-making by 60%, we want to make it 80%. The central office should only control and develop a strategy.

Like any other company, we apply different methods. There is a staff turnover. The biggest problem is finding machine operators, tractor-drivers, combine harvesters drivers, drivers. They massively leave the country to work abroad. We had to take measures and raised salaries.

There are no laws limiting migration in Ukraine. It is awful for us because it leads to problems. The head of the National Bank of Poland expects an increase of migrants to Poland to 2 million people in 2 years. Where are they going to come from? From Ukraine. At the same time, none seems to bother what we all will do when 4 million young Ukrainians leave the country in 2020-2025. They are the lifeblood. Without them, the population of the country will solely consist of pensioners, state employees and people over 35. It is high time we limit migration. It is a priority for businessmen and politicians. We need to improve financial incentives given to young people. That should stop brain drain. If we don't do this, we will soon have a serious staff shortage on our hands.

During the past year, it has increased by 30-40%, for some positions — by 100%. Our machine operators and drivers receive USD 1000-1500 per month. We have to compete with the foreign job market. That's why we introduce a new system of motivation and control.

There are 10-40 people who are in charge of the basic processes. I am constantly in touch with them. I highly trust them. There are 20 analysts who report to me only; they monitor all the processes and give daily reports driving my attention to the most crucial things. I've been picking out these people for years, they are my eyes and ears. On the daily basis, there are 20-30 people with whom I personally communicate, it would be simply impossible if there were more. Once in 3 months that could be 100 people. My method of government is based on learning. The youth is more efficient at learning new governing strategies. I used to consider myself very agile, now I see that young people are more efficient when it comes to certain questions. Devolution — that is the future.

Absolutely. Our enemies do not let us fly high, we are in the low flying mode. We are building a sound agricultural company and I hope it will work well.

I drive a Mercedes. It's a fine car. If I need a plane, I'll just rent it. I don't prioritize such things.

I hope I don't.

It's like they say: the best showing off is not to show off at all. That's my principle.

Not always. Like most of us.

About many things. It's embarrassing to be weak, not fighting weakness is even more embarrassing.

It has changed dramatically. Now it's 100 days abroad, the rest of the days I spend in Ukraine. The situation has changed. It's not about moving around. We've become tactic players, but we've lost our strategy. That's the problem. Restoring the strategy is crucial. This is what I worry about. I try to save the company.

Life has taught me not to be too invested in people. It helps to be less disillusioned afterward. I've learned to take things easier, but interpersonal relationships are the hardest. I've learned to manage them as a surgeon would: complete the surgery whatever happens.

Maybe. I don't really care. I care about the opinions of people who are important to me.

At the very least, they are my closest people and my friends. I respect those who have created something. It's a narrow circle of 50-100 people who are close to me. I value their opinion on my business, my actions, and my plans. However, everybody knows that love and hate go hand in hand. There is no such person who would be equally loved by everybody. I've never been a saint. Read the Bible, there are stories about people who sacrificed themselves and yet they weren't loved. You just need to do your thing and have respect for yourself. If you have defined your moral priorities and values, stick to them. I think my actions and their consequences will speak louder than words.

I am sure of that. I think we are nobodies abroad no matter how much money, yachts, and planes we have. The recent international events have proven that. You are always stronger in your territory. The warrior should fight where he was born, raised and nurtured. That is also where he should die. I am very consistent about that. None stops anyone from traveling to Nice, Athens or London but living in foreign places should take no more than 5-10% of your life.

I think everyone has such thoughts once in a while. I am anchored here by emotions, people, circumstances. When the sun comes out, the mood changes. People are not that different, we do different things but we all share the same emotional constitution.

There are people I admire and people I used to admire when they were still with us. Those people were my role models. They were not ideal but they had principles. I like that. Such people are close to me and my friends. They inspire us and instill the understanding that one should never give up and surrender.

The book highlights important historic events. My past experience has taught me that the biggest value and reward are people you meet along the way. I am always on the go, I see 10 thousand of people but those 100 are my biggest reward. I've met people who have changed my worldview and attitudes, who have inspired me to change and pursue self-development. Lately, I've been learning from people I meet. They are my teachers.

You need to work as long as you live. The warrior philosophy claims that it is an honor to die in battle. A retired warrior is a useless veteran. You are alive as long as you work and benefit society. My children have grown up. I hope they will be decent unspoiled people. They seem to be living up to that and it is very important for me what they choose to do with their lives. I care for my company because it is my child as well. I've invested much effort, time, and labor. It is bound to people with whom I've spent more time than with my family. They are people who face battles together with me every morning. Life is a journey, not a destination. You find answers along the way. This is my philosophy and I'll follow it till the end of my days.

Agriculture is a tool. I am not an agrarian, I majored as a physicist in oil and gas industry. I am a manager, a person who consolidates processes, people, logistics, and external strategies. That is what I am good at. I need to see the big picture and have a full understanding of what's going on. I need to be part of my company. It's important to me. I need to form markets, build plants, do what I am good at. During the last four years, I was caught up in micro-management.

I am, most of the time. At times, I am bored. But more often than not I am happy.

Thank you. The same to you.